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22 Dec 2014 23:46:12
Okay, so I may be wrong, but just bear with me.

A few years ago, a man named Alan Pardew led a very fresh Newcastle United team to Europa League, and subsequently won himself the manager of the year award or something. The following year a very similar Newcastle team (minus the freshness) found themselves in the bottom half of the table.

Now. let's look at some facts that a few Everton fans won't want to face.
1) Even though teams get literally no money in competing, the Europa is still quite heavy and draining on teams. This is due to the traveling for the team, and the timing of the games. Ie thurday nights.

2)the Newcastle Transfer budget was similar to ours this season. The transfer method was also similar. Ie, not increasing squad numbers as much as adding a couple of quality players. This mainly down to the budget.

3) The Manager in both ours and Newcastle's case kept to the successful football from the previous year, without any PLAN B or tweaks to the tactics. Because of this, they were/are much easier to beat as opponents new what to expect.

4) Stars became/ are becoming unsettled to the extent of leaving.

So these are the similarities. I understand that some fans dislike it when we are compared to our geordie counterpart, but the fact is, if we don't change the football we play, and increase our squad numbers, we will forever be placed in the group of "almost had it" teams. Sich like Villa/Newcastle and Spurs (who by the way are still playing better than us atm). Also notice that I haven't mentioned Liverpool, and that's because they're rubbish and will always live in our shadows.

Also another thing, Martinez doesn't do defending very well. Moyes did it amazingly decent. And the fact that last year was so good, could call in to question the fact that because Moyes's stamp was still on the team, we were slightly better off in defense.

Am not saying RM has been found out, but he definitely needs to get his head out of his arse and stop thinking he's got 11 Messi's on his team, because some of these players are very old school still. And sometimes smashing loads of crosses into the box and a few (A FEW) long balls will probably get you some more goals and win games. because at the end of the day, the only perfect goal, is a goal that counts.




22 Dec 2014 22:35:51
Martinez out now. Any manager who takes us below the red side of the city and into their rightful place in the league (ie bottom half) deserves to go.especially when you think of all the money we wasted (sorry I mean they have wasted) Just think for all our troubles, we are only a point and a place behind them. Perspective.




22 Dec 2014 22:12:31
Well, I didn't see too much in Stoke City tonight that - all things being equal - makes me overly concerned about our match with them on Boxing Day. That's if we perform well, but that's a massive "if" imho given our recent performances and results.
Bojan and the pacy Assaidi look to have something about them, but their defenders are prone to fouls by being over-physical. Besides, referees do not punish their holding and grappling in the box when they defend corner kicks and free kicks and crosses. That'll not be a problem, as RM clearly doesn't believe in putting in good corners, free kicks, or crosses - everthing has to be from tiki-taka open play ;-)
Anyway, we are nowhere as effective or efficient as a team, let alone individually, as Chelsea and I can see us struggling and letting Stoke do a number on us.
Our players have to deliver on the pitch and RM must set up the team to do that. Like another poster, I can see many in the crowd reacting to another poor performance and/or bad result by loudly voicing their disgruntlement - even to the point of booing and jeering.

Cowpat Sid 2   Cowpat Sid 2



22 Dec 2014 21:27:36
I am watching stoke v Chelsea game and one thing I have noticed Chelsea's cm get the ball and look to drive fwd with the ball. Barry will never do this, I know we played this system last year and it worked, but maybe it might be better to play Barkley alongside Barry, McCarthy or Besic like against QPR. At least Barkley will take the ball fwd and it makes the other team back off and drop deeper. This allowing Naismith to play the no10 role.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - chelsea play totally different to us robbie, with pace and energy, we look so pedestrian at times..

Ed025: pedestrian? Sometimes we might as well be stationary given that the ball doesn't get moved forward! We can only dream of competing with teams like Chelsea and ManCity - not just in terms of results, but more so their application, winning mentality, self-belief, and - of course - sheer ability.

Cowpat Sid 2 Cowpat Sid 2

Ed025{Ed025's Note - very true sid, to be honest i dont feel we have the squad to play tika-taka football, the likes of jags and distin are typical english centre halves (and i know distin is french), they dont look comfortable on the ball when they are under pressure, add to that the speed with which we move the ball from front to back is far too slow, the likes of lukaku is suffering and getting stick, but his strengths are getting in behind the last man and running the channels, without the guile and skill of someone who will feed him he will never flourish, we have an abundance of hard working defensive midfielders but are short of a game changer in midfield, maybe ross could be that guy, but he is not at present..just my view mate..

22 Dec 2014 22:48:10
And money Sid, don't forget the money. We make a big deal of the money we spent on Luk, but that's small change to these teams. Why are they the best? Because they can afford the best. Simple really.


Woburnblue: I agree about the money - and I mentioned this in a different thread.

Cowpat Sid 2 Cowpat Sid 2



22 Dec 2014 20:19:50
How many goalkeepers - like our Howard and Robles - seem to be following the Count Dracula approach: terrified of crosses!

Cowpat Sid 2   Cowpat Sid 2



22 Dec 2014 18:53:48
Martinez making statements such as we can still get top 4 are a silly statement to make. While mathematically possible, but realistically not. Making top 6 is mathematically possible but realistic not unless performance improves.

Has anyone noted the similarities between Martinez and Brendan Rodgers. Both have one good season to start. Both don't seem to have a plan B or C. both have problems defending. Both have problems scoring. Both dragging their clubs down the league, not listening to fans concerns. They must both use the same coaching manual. In Martinez case I feel he is so obsessed with the European scene to advance there to add to his cv in order to be considered for future coaching when the time comes.

Both clubs need a new spine to the team, goalkeeper, 2 centre backs and proven goal scorer. In Evertons case Lukaku money was wasted which I have remarked on in the past.
Garbutt deserves moving to first choice with Baines to other position or bench.
Any choices as successor to Martinez.


An interesting original post with some intriguing points and questions.
I don't want RM to go - he can still get us back on track imho, but needs to start proving that PDQ - and I can't think of any available alternative managers/coaches that are realistically available. That's not to say there aren't any, but I just can't think who they are at present.

Cowpat Sid 2 Cowpat Sid 2

Not sure, but what about Tony Pulis? Might seem a strange choice this 1 but but the guy organises his defence very well & played some damn good football whilst in charge at Palace including outplaying us on our own turf last season! Maybe I'm just desperate or in panic mode after our sudden sharp descent in form!




22 Dec 2014 18:42:17
So, Jagilelka (and others) are stating that we've underperformed this season. It's good that they're owning up to this - but what else could they say?
So, the players and coaches are working hard on the training ground to make sure we play better - but what else would we expect?
So, we've had some poor refereeing decisons go against us - but we've had a few go our way and we've ridden our luck on a few occasions this season.
So, we're respectful of opposing sides - but there's no need to over-praise them and embolden them before we play them!
So, we go into every fixture and every competition trying to win - but what's the point if we don't do that?
All the positivity in the world and all of the self-avowed pre-match determination counts for nothing imho if we don't actually deliver results on the pitch. If we can win by playing entertaining football then so much the better, but a few scrappy 1-0 victories in the next few fixtures would be just as welcome - and unexpected, I'm afraid to say, given our current showings.

Cowpat Sid 2   Cowpat Sid 2



22 Dec 2014 18:16:23
We don't have the money to compete with wealthier clubs for the world's best players - and couldn't attract them anyway, especially without regular Champions League football.
We have suffered our fair share of injuries - but it's just that: "our fair share", as other clubs also have key players out injured.
I've heard it said by countless top managers and coaches that drilling a team in its defensive duties is very straightforward and is the first thing to get right.
I've also heard it said that the one thing that disturbs defenders is opponents with pace.
And, of course, whatever the defensive strengths - and allowing for occasional mistakes - there are always those worldies that opponents sometimes score and just can't be stopped.
However - and notwithstanding all of the above - it's down to RM to prepare our players and get the best performances out of them whatever the circumstances. Professional football is a results business first and foremost (it surely has to be considering the money at stake) and (I hate to say this) an entertainment business second. We have to be playing winning football in the Premier League rather than being acclaimed as great entertainers in the Championship. If we can win playing expansive, entertaining, attacking footbal then great - but we have to be winning.
I want RM to succeed, but he needs to do better (results-wise this season) to prove himself as "the right one, the bright one". This is another season when the faltering of other clubs left a good opportunity to finish in the Champions League places, but we just seem incapable of believing that we could be up there. As another poster has stated: RM - wake up and smell the coffee!

Cowpat Sid 2   Cowpat Sid 2

Ed025{Ed025's Note - no argument from me on that one sid..

I agree with almost everything except "our fair share of injuries". We seem to have had just about every outfield player injured for at least a few games. It feels like we have had more injuries than anyone else. Coleman, Jags, Stones, Distin, Baines, Osman, Barkley, McGeady, Mirallas, Naismith, Lukaku, McCarthy have all had injuries for more than a couple of games. I think Chelsea have had 2 all season? And I am sure I have missed a couple.




22 Dec 2014 17:41:55
I'm not criticising what any player (past, present, and future) does re publishing an autobiography, but if I'd been a professional player (some chance!) and I'd published an autobiography (even less chance!), then I'd like to think that personally I'd have done one of two things:
(1) if published as a book, then given all profits to charity - perhaps the Everton former players' foundation; or
(2) published it as a series of instalments in the the Everton matchday magazine/programme or in the Evertonian magazine. Maybe the club wouldn't like the "warts and all" stories, but they'd entertain the fans and other readers!

What do others think about how players handle these biographical looks?

Cowpat Sid 2   Cowpat Sid 2

I would have published it once I'd retired from playing!




22 Dec 2014 17:25:13
Just a thought on the home match against Stoke City this coming Friday (Boxing Day).
We played last Saturday afternoon, so - even allowing for the players travelling back from Southampton - they will have had a decent period to rest, recover, and prepare.
Stoke, on the other hand, have a tough fixture against Chelsea on Monday evening before coming to Everton later in the week.
I'll be interested to see how they perform against Chelsea and also which players they then select against Everton. Considering that we couldn't beat Southampton's team of reserves and academy players, it doesn't bode well if Stoke have a team of battle-hardened Premier League players against us.
Whatever happens against Stoke City, imho the trip away to Newcastle United two days later (Sunday afternoon) will be a real test of how resilient our squad is - both physically and mentally. If we get turned over in either - or both - matches, then I will not tolerate any RM spin about tiredness, referees, "should have", "could have", or "what if".
In the past, I've posted that I'll support any player who has the honour of wearing the royal blue shirt, as long as he's giving 100% for the cause. This is still the case and even though it's clear that some of our players lack skill, application, confidence or even just luck (!), I have yet to doubt their honest commitment (however ineffective they are). If a player is out of form (whatever the reason might be), then I expect RM to be ruthless and select the better available alternative - e.g. Stones or Alcaraz for Distin.
Diatribe over - that feels better!
Once a blue, always a blue.

Cowpat Sid 2   Cowpat Sid 2

Another good post Cowpat. If certain players are not playing well then they deserve to be dropped. That is to say Baines for Garbutt, Lukaku for Kone and Distin for Stones. The likes of Barry and Howard should be looking over their shoulders although much depends upon whether McCarthy and Mirallas will be fit. Robles isn't good enough which means a new keeper should be our priority in January.

Daveyboy Blue Daveyboy Blue

Don't think Martinez has it in him to be ruthless. Hope I am proved wrong.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - if he does not have that trait tedster, then the players will walk all over him mate, and thats a recipe for disaster..



22 Dec 2014 09:03:46
If everyone is fit and Bobby makes the changes all of us want him to make, we'll be fine, Back to winning ways, Our subs bench could be Howard, Distin, Barry, Osman, Pienaar, and Eto'o. Over 200 years of experience. It would be like a load of Twirlies at the bus stop on a Thursday morning going to the post office for their pensions. So let's not panic, I'm sure he'll get it right in the end.


Do you go to the game and watch the same garbage that I watch?
What winning ways? Like West Ham where we were lucky?
Keeping the ball for 65% of a game means sod all if all you are doing is passing along the back line again and again. The idea that we try and draw the opposition out is laughable when, as soon as they do come out and press, we panic or have no idea how or where to make a decent pass.

We used to have a go at Moyes for training the ability out of strikers. Well Martinez has managed to destroy Baines and Coleman as attacking options as well as making the whole middle of the team so nervous a gang of school kids could take us.

And yes it is down to Martinez. He is the coach and he is the one responsible for our 'style' of non-playing.

The players still have the talent and skill and once or twice in a match we can see it. But they are under such a confining method of playing style that their willingness to express themselves more often has been trained out of them.

Getting all the players back is not enough (and not totally needed) if we are going to play the same way all the time. Moyes was criticised for trying to 'lock down' a one nil lead with half the game to go and deservedly so. But now we don't even have that luxury.

With the squad we have we should be playing much better football (not relying on stats at the end of a game to judge how we performed). We should be able to adapt when things are going awry. We should be bringing on subs to change things (it was a disgrace to not at least try and change things with subs). The fans in the ground can see how bad things are. The players are playing with handcuffs on and getting nowhere fast.

Martinez is the manager and he is to blame. Directors, officials and coaching staff should be putting him right. He should get and be willing to use a plan b, c and d when the need arises. He should use the squad and not rely on anyone who is out of form, carrying an injury or just no longer willing to try for the Blue shirt.

And don't bother bringing Gerard back. We have enough substitute wingers and wing backs. Another one on the wage bill is not needed and not wanted to draw attention away from our real problems.

I said a good few weeks back that we were playing relegation football and since then it has got worse.

Boxing Day, if the result is poor, may be the first time in 46 years that I would be willing to boo at the end of the game. well probably not :-)
But if we survive this season and the football stays the same then there will be a couple of really good seats going in the Paddock next season.

I feel sorry for the fans who made the effort this season. I think for the first 4-5 matches we were actually sold out. Then they had to sit through that!

Martinez! Wake up and smell the Chang, you are at Everton now!!


BlueMacPK4: your post is a good read, mate.

Cowpat Sid 2 Cowpat Sid 2

BlueMac, Post was tongue in cheek, I do go to the games and if you'd read my posts on Saturday evening you'd know how I felt, As I say Wigan - Everton I just can't tell the difference, changes are needed.


I said when Moyes went that he had done a fantastic job for us on a negative budget. When Walter Smith left, we had an aging squad filled with pretty much average to poor players. Moyes got them playing to a system. It might not have been pretty at first, but slowly over the next few seasons he brought in players with a bit more quality. He also bought in cheap and sold expensively. We made profit on lots of players. All the time it was reinvested into the squad. It says something when players like Felli and Baines were wanted by Manchester United. Coleman was linked to Arsenal. Arteta went to Arsenal. Yet Moyes still seemed to dig out gems like John Stones and at the same time start blooding the likes of Barkley. When Martinez came in, a few people were really cutting with their comments to me when I suggested Moyes had done a great job andd we should show some respect. When he made some comments about signing Baines, I started to think these people were right and he had not done such a good job. Especially when we signed Lukaku. However, this season has started to show my fears about Martinez. He took an aging squad (albeit a good one) and has added players that in my opinion are inferior to the ones we already had (with one or two exceptions). I do not think the following players have improved our squad: Robles, Alcaraz, Kone, McGeady and possibly Barry and Besic. I accept that we had a good season out of Barry and also that Besic may develop into a good player. But the others are just filling the squad with squad players. We need first team players not squad players. I also accept that Lukaku and McCarthy are good signings. but we had to pay top dollar on these. When you see Swansea with Bony and Southampton with Pelle both at a fraction of the price, it makes you think. I don't want to get on Martnez's or the teams back, but I am seriously worried about the tactics and the quality of signings.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - moyes for me stayed a couple of years too long degsy, he done a good job as you say on a limited budget..but to be honest i could not wait to see the back of him when he went mate..



21 Dec 2014 23:07:03
It's getting a bit gun ho all this sacking martinez stuff.best thing since sliced bread last season.we play better than under moves yet we seem to forget the near relegation we had under him.Bobby into second season,moyes 11.chill out for gods sake


I agree Dentielad. This might just be a blip caused by a few factors. But it is difficult to remain behind someone when they had such a great start. When you factor in that the squad has been together now for a few seasons with one or two additions, that's what worries me.
Howard has been Mr consistent for a few years but now all of a sudden looks very poor.
Coleman was looking full of confidence but now never wants to run at anyone with the ball.
Distin just looks past it.
Baines can't get down the wing with the ball. His partner Pienaar who used to set him up looks past it too.
Barry started brilliant but lately looks past it too.
McCarthy was looking good until that flippin hamstring.
Lukaku looks a shadow of the player from last season. I don't know what they are doing to teach him the flight of the ball, but he seems to run underneath it and watch it sail over his head 9 times out of 10.
I am sure it is a confidence thing, but the Goodison crowd are so twitchy with the tippy tap football, I don't see how we are going to pull through this blip. Hard work on the training field I guess.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - maybe 1 keeper and 10 osmans degsy.. :)

Now you have given me a great idea to turn it round Ed. Why don't we try Osman in goal? I am sure Swan would agree that he can't do any worse than Howard in goal? Then I can become even more obsessed and Swan can have something to really moan about. It's a win win situation surely? And wins is what we need right now. :)


Ed025{Ed025's Note - great stuff degsy..



21 Dec 2014 19:54:55
anybody remember Mike Walker
manager of Norwich, & after one good season's results came to Everton.
he did nothing, & nearly got us relegated, & went back to Norwich after less than 2 years.
ring any bells? see any pattern?
lets stop being a testing club for would be Prem managers.
B.K.is responsible for the state we are in, so let's see what he does in the Jan sale, for both a new manager, or will he give R.M. another 28 mill to waste.


22 Dec 2014 13:10:47
He is an expensive coach (in terms of goals conceded to follow his philosophy) to have that is for certain. The analyisis by Kenwright was flawed, he appointed Roberto on the strength of Wigan winning the FA Cup instead of the bread and butter of the Premiership. This is a man that took Wigan to 16th, 16th, 17th and finally relegated. To hire someone on the basis of that, casts doubts on Kenwrights reasoning.




21 Dec 2014 19:34:18
post to Cowpat Sid 2.
don't knock walking football Sid,
I play for Fleetwood Town over 50's
one of our lad's is 77 & could do a job up front for the Blues, & he wouldn't cost 28 mill,
just a pie & a pint after the match!
come on you Fleetwood R.I.P.'s


Henderson: since when was I knocking walking football? How do you know I don't play it as well - I'm 60 by the way.

Cowpat Sid 2 Cowpat Sid 2

Mike walker & Walter Smith aye
were playing similar brand of footy
under Roberto.
God knows where it will take us hopefully we won't b joining Wigan
in the championship.
Need another 21 points 2 b safe
or thereabouts.




21 Dec 2014 18:37:15
I think we need john stones back sharpish he is the only centre back comfortable on the ball when he plays and brings the ball out of defence are midfield move forward along with the front men allowing us to go on the attack the two fullbacks push on and its a completey new team game none of this twenty passes between jags and buzz and then back to dodgy in goal he's capable of bringing a ball 40 or 50 yards and starting the attack and then pass it to another player in our side unlike the other pair.

mossley hill al



21 Dec 2014 18:23:48
I've always been a big fan of Tim Howard but it seems like age has caught up with him, & a replacement needs to be found. I just hope that we have scouts in Italy & they have been keeping an eye on Luigi Sepe, a young Italian lad who is on loan at Empoli from Napoli. I've just watched him play in today's match against Fiorentina & he really looks the business. Forget buying another winger, let's start shoring up our dodgy defence!

Toffee Tezza   Toffee Tezza



21 Dec 2014 15:53:55
And while I am at it. when Moyes went, I was gutted. He was rubbish I was told by most of you. Boring football and terrible manager. Then Roberto came in and it was a real love in. Yes we are playing brilliant football now. We nearly made the top 4. We qualified for Europa League. Yes it looks good. Come 2014 and we spend 28 million on Lukaku. Great signing. Come December and it's all falling apart. "Bring back Moyes" I say. Make Osman captain. Flippin heck this wine tastes good!!


When Moyes went, I was gutted. (Well I wasn't)

He was rubbish I was told by most of you. (He still is)

Boring football and terrible manager. (That is correct)

Then Roberto came in and it was a real love in. Yes we are playing brilliant football now. (We never have).

We nearly made the top 4. (No we didn't)

We qualified for Europa League. (A Mickey Mouse cup for the dregs of Europe)

Yes it looks good. (Nah)

Come 2014 and we spend 28 million on Lukaku. (We were robbed).

Great signing. (Donkey)

Come December and it's all falling apart. (Correct)

"Bring back Moyes" I say. (No)

Make Osman captain. (No again)

Flippin heck this wine tastes good! (No it doesn't)

We are Everton
That's what we do
Martinez Out

The Real Mike

Just out of interest Mike, if we were to sack Roberto, who would be your preferred managerial choice?


Love it Mike!




21 Dec 2014 15:32:23
Dooh! The penny's dropped: because we have so many aging players, RM has us playing "walking football"! I thought that was only for over-50s, but it's clearly the next stage on from tiki-taka.

Cowpat Sid 2   Cowpat Sid 2

21 Dec 2014 18:15:19
Nah Sid we will put a bell in the ball next mate.




21 Dec 2014 14:34:14
I am really ****ed off. So I thought I would do a real wind up post:
Have you not considered that one of the reasons we are struggling is that Leon Osman is out injured again. I hear you all groan but Swan will actually back me up on this. we had a poor run earlier in the season then when Osman came into the team, we had a decent run. and now he is out of the team again. It may also have coincided with John Stones and Kevin Mirallas also being fit to play, but I think it is more to do with LEON! In reality, Lukaku cannot play without service and both Mirallas and Osman do bring a link to the team from defence to attack. Having them both available gives us something extra. Add in John Stones and that also gets us playing more forward from defence. I hear we are interested in an 8 million bid for Del Boy? I would rather spend that on an 8 million center half fro some obscure league.


21 Dec 2014 15:39:33
Im not going to have a go, we both know osman being out the team had NOTHING to do with our results. But i'd be in heaven if doofy loofy came back for 8m, what a bargain. Distin and alcaraz will be gone in the summer (hopefully), that leaves us with jagielka, stones, browning and galloway who is probably isn't ready. If we have to do anything, we have to get a ball playing centre half, alderwerield, schar or someone who can bring the ball out. i'm having a good day, just watched adam johnson net an 89th minute winner at the wonga stadium, made up, now for arsenal to hopefully beat liverpool and send that nob alderidge into a rage, see f he threatens people again, what a fool


Obviously Osman played a part. I grant you he needed another 10 on the pitch with him. But 11 playing without him in all the other games can't knock the skin off a rice pudding. Coincidence? Maybe. More likely that we have no-one better at the moment in my opinion. Look up how many of our wins (all 5 of them) had Osman on the pitch. Then look up how many we drew and lost without him. Yeah I know he is past it and yeah I know he is not the greatest. but look it up.


21 Dec 2014 20:32:36
He did, howard, baines and mccarthy were all there too. Osman wasnt there for qpr was he? Exactly, 75% of fans (probably more) hate the site of him, so meh. You could say what you say about any player, we got beat by southampton as we didn't bring kone on, coinsidence? I think not! We lost against chelsea 9 months after selling jelavic, coincidence? I think not!. Its quite disturbing tbh, we got beat by man city 2 years after phil neville retired, surely not a coincidence? It can't be!.


I thought I would do it for you Swan. Even amazed myself. The games that Osman played a full game or was only taken off with minutes to go are:
Wolfsburg at home. We won 4 1.
Crystal Palace we lost 2 3.
Villa we won 3 nil.
Burnley we won 3 1.
Lille we won 3 nil
West Ham we won 2 1
He also came on as sub for
WBA away we won 2 nil.
He was also included as sub in draws against:
Krasn away draw.
Sunderland away draw.
His only loss this season is therefore crystal palace at home. Make what you want of this info. But he has been involved in 9 games. We won 6 of these and drew 2. Ok it is stretching it a bit including the 3 games where he came on late. But compare it with games that he was not involved in and you get:
7 draws and 5 losses and only 1 win. Leon Osman for King I say!


Howard was in the wins but Baines and McCarthy? I can't be ar***d looking up. Swan, believe what you want mate, but Osman's record p9 w6 d2 compares against the team without him of p13 w1 d7 speaks for itself to me. Some people can't see the wood for the trees. I will leave it at that.


21 Dec 2014 21:50:45
This is quite an obsession, I have to ask, from one man to another, is he your celebrity crush? There is nothing wrong with that, it actually explains quite a lot. We won games in the 80s without osman, care to explain that?. I know you have those teenage fantasies about threesomes with osman and moyes but, you're clearly going through an odd phase, it will pass. I have quite a liking for jennifer alba tbh, you have it for leon osman, there is nothing wrong with that, we are all evertonians, we are here for you


Nah mate. I just think he is given a hard time when actually he still has a role to play. I was actually very surprised to see how useful he has been this season. I really agree that he is on his last legs. It worries me that we rely on so many old uns now. We really do need a major overhaul of an aging squad. I do realise that he is not the player he once was, but you cannot argue to me that he is a very important part of the squad when you look at stats over a period of games like it has shown. The team does seem to perform better with him in. I will leave it at that for now.until the next time lol. I am coming up for the boxing day Stoke game and hope that Leon is in the team and we register another well needed win. I would certainly pick him ahead of McGeady on the right. I would also pick him ahead of Besic based on the fact Besic has had 1 great game for us and a few poor ones. I also agree with you that we cannot play Naismith, Barkley and Eto'o in the same team if Lukaku plays. We need another right sided midfielder. So the Christmas wish list includes a goalkeeper, a center back, a right sided midfielder and a new fitness coach who does not push hamstrings too far. Not much to ask for Santa?


21 Dec 2014 22:41:20
I'm not trying to make excuses for the rest of the squad, who this season have been woefully poor, but those games listed that osman has had a part in playing don't exactly inspire you to think he's good. The fixtures he's missed include Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea. see a pattern here? I probably could have played his cameo roles in the listed fixtures and had as good an impact, but I'd have played for the love of the shirt, a couple of pints and a packet of cashew nuts.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - bring you boots friday craig.. :)

That is a very fair point CraigHuyton Blue. I take that on board, but would also add that we have only drawn against a lot of the other teams. Please do have a look at those stats again. 13 games without him and only 1 win. Of course I realise he is not Pele nor Messi, Ronaldo etc. but 1 win from 13 says something surely? Then 6 wins from 9 when he has played. Think of the draws against Leicester, Lille away, Swansea. They were without him too. Enough said.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - and he is the real santa as well apparently..

Degsy is correct we were a winning team with Osman in the side more often than not. So really the question is what do you prefer shocking winning football with Leon in the team or the spectacular football we play without him? Ed maybe you could run a poll?


Ed025{Ed025's Note - i will do one sa90, but it will have to be...does he deserve to be in the team mate..

Ed if its a question of does Leon deserve to be in the team I can see it being a very one sided pole.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - i think it will be very close mate..

22 Dec 2014 15:21:40
But degsy you never answered me, how on earth were we winning titles in the 80s without osman, how were we winning matches before he came along.




21 Dec 2014 11:23:33
i think were in real trouble boys, we need 19 points to stay up (sad I know) and our next fixtures are stoke (h) newcastle (a) hull (a) city(h) palace(a) and the reds (h) I can't see us winning any of those, maybe stoke but that will be a very tough game. we just seem so slow in everything we do, we have no end product and are playing players out of position every game, I know lukaku hasn't been at his best but I do feel a little sorry for him, he gets no service at all so ends up coming deep to collect the ball and what's happend to our full backs?? we hardly ever put a cross into the box, we are terrible at corners and have no plan b once all the passing breaks down, I personally think lukaku would have scored much more goals under david moyes, when we were chasing a game or looking for a winner we would have lumped the ball forward and played off the front man and that's ok to do but bobby just won't budge on his set up, its soo frustraing. honestly if he doesn't change and drop his stubborn tactics soon then were only going to slip further down the table.


I don't think there is anything wrong with our style of passing it and I prefer this than hoof it to fellaini and it has proven to be a winning formula. I don't think it's a case of other teams knowing how to play against us now I think it's a case of players with no confidence and the need to get passing quickly it's a catch 22 situation. Maybe it's more if a case of we play narrow if we play Naismith eto & Barkley, it means the opposition full backs can advance this pushing back baines & Coleman which prevents a lot of service and one of our main threats. Is it possible to get Delefeou back on loan or is it not allowed due to him being on loan already and only being allowed to register with so many clubs in a season. Mcgeady is a confidence player which is lacking, Atsu has not shown anything yet, piennar has not shown any form for a while either due to injuries and mirrallas is the only threat we have had and he has not been available enough. Maybe it would be better to play Coleman RM and Hibbert/browning at RB and Oviedo/baines LM and garbutt at LB to keep the width. Just a thought as a supporter I am sure Roberto has thought of this he's the one with the coaching license A.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - its as though his coaching license has expired robbie..

I agree with the Lakaku comment and judging by his body language think he might be getting a little sick of it, If we don't pick up any points in the next couple of games somebody high up has to question Martinez and his tactics. Its as if he has lost the dressing room somehow and everybody looks lost. Fingers crossed we can get over this but we must get points in the next couple of games or I fear the worse.

lancerboy lancerboy

Ed01{Ed001's Note - he has not lost the dressing room, the players and staff (and media for that matter) all love Martinez, as he is a genuinely nice guy. Maybe that could be the problem, if anything, that no one is scared of him because he is so nice?}

The Catalan Clown specialises in taking teams backwards, he did it to Wigan, now it has started on us. I laugh when I see him constantly linked to the likes of Arsenal and the 'dead cert' to manage Barcelona next.

Wigan under Steve Bruce finished 14th and then 11th. Solid foundation there.

Martinez gets a grip of them and finishes 16th 16th 15th and then relegated in 18th. Superb job done there.

We are Everton
That's what we do
Martinez Out

The Real Mike

The Real Mike: so what about RM's record as manager at Swansea City?

Cowpat Sid 2 Cowpat Sid 2

I can't be bothered checking Cowpat. I just know I want The Catalan Clown out of this club now. Sick of the sight of him mate. Can't stand that smug look any longer.

We are Everton
That's what we do
Martinez Out

The Real Mike

I do think bobby is the man for us, I won't be one of those calling for him to be sacked, he just needs to have a more direct route when all the tippy tappy passing doesn't work, we have a great spine of a team, stones, macca, barkley and lukaku, all very good players and still very young with room to improve but barry needs to be dropped then have macca and besic cm, a winger in january is a must.


The Real Mike: fair enough, mate. Who could (realistically) replace him AND who do you actually want?

Cowpat Sid 2 Cowpat Sid 2

Rob, I don't think know if he would have scored more goals under Moyes to be honest! Watch him all game and he is dreadful in the air! Never wins a header and he even load looked scared of the ball for his og yesterday, was cowering away from it. When he goes for headers it looks as though he can't be arsed and just wants to make it look as though he is trying for it when he is really not. It's not just Lukaku not putting his all in though, baines was beaten so easily to get the cross in yesterday. Could do with some more shouting rather than Molly coddling in the dressing room I think, scare em big dunc!


I think Roberto is a great manager, would hate to see him leave, think next season we will see the best in him.

Alan Kevin



21 Dec 2014 10:11:41
I echo all comments of the posters post southampton we have shown no desire that's the hardest thing to take no energy the players don't seem motivated and that comes down to Roberto. I am not saying sack him because we have played well in the past maybe its a learning curve for him and he needs to have a go at the players instead of trying to be positive. That was certainly not dynamic football Roberto! our last few fixtures have all been there for the taking. Spurs (struggling crowd on the back and we got 1st goal, Hull (really struggling and most out of form team), Man city (probably couldn't have asked a better time to go there aguero went off injured), Southampton (out of form missing a load of players). Its worrying at the moment but saying that football can be strange other teams like liverpool and spurs are struggling but spurs seem to be v lucky at the moment but at least they show desire. it just makes it worse to see Sam fat head Allardyce and Alan partridge Pardew up towards the top of the league.




21 Dec 2014 09:01:34
More bad news Distan says he has no plans to retire. Why would he with the money we are throwing at him.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - he has been a fine player for us WB, but is not suited to our present way of playing...a fish out of water..so to speak..

For me there is one thing that reverse our poor performances

Bring back Deu lefeu and get rid of mcgeady. This will allow super Kev to help out Bainsey, Ross to play deeper, Naismith up top with Lukaku just ahead (but stay onside please), Seamus can bomb on as we miss his pace when mcgeady hesitates and slows him down.

As was painfully obvious yesterday we lacked pacey wingers and our full backs became ineffective because the balance was all wrong. Not the playing staff.

We don't need to get rid of loads of players. Just one in and one out.

Toffee ace

Ed025{Ed025's Note - my concern ace is that he does not know his best side, he plays guys out of position on a regular basis, our midfield seems to chop and change every week and that worries me..

That is a worry Ed, but teams with pace win games. Like we were last season. I just feel that we never get results when the balance of the team is skew. Which it has been all season since what has been playing in front of Baines and Seamus is not to their strengths. Super Kev in front of Baines and Deu lefeu in front of Seamus will sort the balance out a treat.

Toffee ace

Ed025{Ed025's Note - you could be right ace..



21 Dec 2014 08:49:37
Naismith can not play right he is only good as a no10, barkley can not play left . We were too narrow but martinez kept the same shape all game even though we went 1nil down then 2 nil then 3 nil; and did he do anything? no. Why not at 2-0 have besic as 1 holding mid, bring on kone up front with that bag is rubbish who cost 28m and tried something different. Alarm bells are ringing in me ears and they won't stop.




21 Dec 2014 01:10:31
Rancid, Putrid, Disgusting, Vile, Pathetic, Gutless, Heartless, Shocking, Offensive, Inglorious, Heartbreaking, Heart Wrenching, Shameful, Abject, Horrendous, Pitiful, Abysmal, Abhorrent, Loathsome, Paltry, Shoddy, Humiliating, Ugly, Squalid, Trashy, Disrespectful, Poor, Awful, Rotten, Miserable, Dreadful, Tragic, Dire, Downer, Excruciating, Stinker, Calamitous, Insignificant, Despicable, Derogatory, Lewd, Filthy, Detestable, Horrid, Revolting, Nasty, Repulsive, Nauseating, Gross, Miserable, Hideous and finally just plain s**t#.

Just a few words to describe how i'm feeling at the moment.

Aussie Toffee

21 Dec 2014 04:06:22
With you


Don't forget crummy.

New Blue in the U New Blue in the U

21 Dec 2014 08:55:17
And Blue, always Blue with a easy shade of Grey.




21 Dec 2014 00:05:12
Totally unacceptable performance today.start dropping players Bobby. Lukaku needs time out.put kone in.at least he can hold up play,win a header etc. Missing Mccarthy, get rid of Gibson,piennar, mcceady, terminate Atsu loan and bring in a Gary cahill type defender.Bobby says the January transfer market for everton is going to be quiet,let's hope not.get depay, niloto or someone who brings attacking flair to the team. I'd go for bolasie from palace. Likes to attack.bring it on.




20 Dec 2014 23:00:32
there is no fighting sprit for team only one player had a bit of passion today and that was mo besic who had decent game but rest were awful howard needs to pee of to mls worst premiership goalkeeper i'd even play joel before him now. latest links are ayew and gerrrard d


21 Dec 2014 04:05:21
Bar maybe mignolet and rochard wright I cannot see a keeper worse than howard. People go on about 'ooooh he's a good shot stopper', but, that's his job, the very least a goalkeeper should be is a good shot stopper, as is every keeper in the league. Difference being when he stops shots he slaps the ball towards the nearest opposing player. He concedes so many long range goals, cabaye, lampard, ben arfa, assou ekotto, delph and dejagah, the list goes on and on. i'm not even finished, gerrards free kick at anfield, dives backwards, bryan ruiz 2 seasons ago, larsson this season. He doesn't come for crosses stays on his line, costs us so much, cost us against giroud early in the season, carrol in the fa cup and even today. He also loves excercise, doing starjumps when demba ba went through in moyes' last season. He doesn't command his area, doesn't start counters, can't kick the ball when its in his hands. He loves handling it outside the box and loves hitting himself after a save (a rare moment tbf). He needs to go asap, nowhere near good enough, some people honestly debate who is our best keeper of all time after southall between howard and martin, haha, he has nothing on nig, doesn't belong in the same breath. Truly truly awful, costs us so many times, terrible goalkeeper, but hey 'hes a decent shot stopper', what a load of rubbish. i'd love to have doofy loofy back, its impossible, but i'd love it, the little genius.


Never really went along with the whole, "Howard is rubbish" thing swan, but to be honest I'm very much in that camp now. With the defence we have had in recent years he has been very well protected but now we are like wigan at the back he looks a liability. Seems to make a mistake every week! Dreadful parry against Qpr then the star jump as you mentioned! Only problem is joel is 10x worse, his positioning in the Krasnodar game can only be described as woeful. Would love doofy back as well! Class little player, though it's a shame we could never afford him because billy boy spent all his pennies on the yak mark II. So many players past it in this current squad, and bringing through youth hasn't really worked has it!? The players he has brought through are class anyway so it's not exactly and achievement.
Get rid of : howard, joel, Hibbert, jags, Distin, alcaraz, baines, osman, Gibson, Pienaar and my least favourite do nothing of all mcgeady. And play Kone up front, he looks the 28 Million man!

Ahhh feels good to have that off my chest, no blues down in devon that will listen to my whinging but no doubt if we win 3 on the bounce I'll be rosy again! Sort it out Bobby martin!


Yeh he woefull maybe it time to give joel a go or get new keeper brought my self to watch the goals again and most them were straight at him 2 went through legs tbf I think I could of saved them even though i'm a cb


Wait a minute bretto. Have you put, time to give Joel a go or was it a mistake and you were ment to put,it's time for Joel to go?


Our keepers make rob green look good, how tragic is that!




20 Dec 2014 22:42:06
Laughing stock mid table team & sinking like a stone.
Bring back Moyes before its to late & make us solid difficult to beat again instead of being the softies.
I said after the Qpr victory Monday night we'd get a whooping @ Soton & so it proved.
Absolute garbage.


21 Dec 2014 08:52:44
Bring back Moyes really? The guy walked out on the club, couldn't get away quick enough. But hey look at all the trophys we won when he was here. Yes let's have him back then we can start "punching above our weight" again. Lol


Correct Moyes mate made some astute signings, Mirallas, Coleman, Naismith,
Baines, Jags in comparison to Martinez woeful signings with Wigan rejects Robles, Alcaraz, Kone plus misfit Mcgeady oh & dare I say it Lukaku.Dont think Moyes ever had luxury of spending 28 mill on a single player that @ the mo looks like fish out of water.
Granted he never delivered a trophy but the team were sort of in & around top 6 year in year out on a nothing budget & we're playing like a proper team before his departure which is more than I can say about the present day team easy to beat Martinez softies.
On the subject of trophies mate forget it were nowhere near toothless up front & defence is leaking goals like there's no tomorrow.
Get Mourhino in with fresh investment, new owners, new young blood then & only then will this great club start winning trophies.




20 Dec 2014 22:09:27
I am taking up a collection for rm's xmas box. It's a book, 1001 "new excuses", it's self interest, as I am getting pissed off and very board by the old Wigan one being continually rehashed.PS s/hampton have up till to-day, lost the last 5, inc one to a, 3rd division side. T.o-day, and missing their best 4 players, they swept us aside PPS Best of luck selling those 1/2 season tickets.




20 Dec 2014 21:08:20
Worst performance I can remember for a longtime. I actually said to my mate we played better than this under moyes. I've written off the league and qualifying for europe now this season. The second half was a disgrace they did not look like a side who had been given a b*****ing at half time, probably becuase they weren't. My worry now is how we persuade the likes of mirralas and mccarthy to sign new contracts when the team looks like it is going backwards. Just hope the long trips upto newcastle and hull will be worth it.


Ed025{Ed025's Note - good point that sean..



20 Dec 2014 21:07:07
I remember doing a post about playerd i'd get rid of, I remember someone saying its not that easy. Well, there are players that either no longer have it, never had it or don't care. So, imo, howard, joel, hibbert, jagielka, distin, baines, osman, mcgeady and pienaar all need to be moved on one way or another. Howard, osman, pienaar, mcgeady, joel and hibbert are all awful. Distin and jagielka are finished. Baines doesn't actually do anything anymore, can't cross, can't beat a man, doesn't stop crosses and has a phobia of tackling. Garbutt is already better, play him and bryan, who appreciates us fans, loves the club and is a boss player. Get rid of leighton 'no end product' baines. We should of got rid in the summer, if results don't improve after the january window, martinez has to go. Relegation is a possibility, don't doubt it


Ed025{Ed025's Note - i dont doubt it for a minute swan, but a couple of them could stay imo, jags and baines need a good kick up the arse but can still do a job, and i still believe ossie still has something to offer...but thats just my opinion mate..

Swan, the problem with just getting rid of players is you have to have others ready to step in and take their places who are better. Whilst I agree that some of the players you mention need replacing, as yet we don't seem to have these replacements lined up. Until we have them ready, we have to continue with what we have. I take your point on Garbutt. He has shown some promise and Baines does seem to be losing his way. I do feel that Roberto keeps playing these number 10's which we have already agreed do not work. ie Barkley, Naismith and Eto'o in the same team. I also feel Lukaku looks half the player without Mirallas on the pitch. I agree we might be in a relegation fight. Mainly because in the 5 games we have won, we could have lost 2 of them quite easily. I really feel that we are missing McCarthy too. Besic looked good against QPR, but in my opinion, that was his only decent game for us. against a team that has so far not registered a single away point. I know we are all bitterly disappointed right now. let's hope our injury list clears and we move onwards and upwards. Right now it feels like we have gone backwards.


21 Dec 2014 07:52:53
Absolute crap Swan. While Garbutt should turn out to be a good player, to say he is better than Baines is ridiculous in the extreme. All well and good saying 'let's get rid of him and him and him' but, as Degsy points out, you need replacements as the squad is thread bare as it stands. Forgetting about the money for one minute, you want 9 players out so that should be close to 9 players in. Then they will be expected to hit the ground running and gel immediately! The cost would be great with signing on and transfer fees. You need to look at the bigger picture mate. There is a common denominator in why all these players have not reached the required levels, the buck always stops with one man. RM himself. This possession game is no longer effective, teams know how we are going to play. Let us have the ball without creating and then score with practically their first shot. He needs to find a plan b, and soon, if we want to compete with the other teams for a top 4 finish (obviously that is beyond us this season) He needs to start earning his wages, grow a set and let the players know it isn't good enough rather than being nice in interviews. Dropping big players will send out the right message to the rest. Pass the ball around but look to create openings rather than go back to TH. Obviously, RM should be given the time to set this right but, if it's still the same 10 games in to next season then BK will have some big decisions to make. No doubt we have regressed this season but did we not overachieve last year? Maybe, because we played so well, we are being too critical right now. Come on Swan, get some perspective


Ed025{Ed025's Note - good post that spud, i know there has been a lot of doubt about his leadership in recent weeks but we still have a lot of really good players at the club, they are lacking direction and confidence at the moment, and your right its up to bobby to sort it out as a matter of urgency..

21 Dec 2014 21:02:53
Ed25 RM needs to read the comments from the Banter forum. Whilst I appreciate he has a coaching licence but qualifications are meaningless unless you know how to apply the knowledge. Nor is watching various team matches on 3 or 4 tv's most nights a guarantee that you understand the tactics of the opposition.
Most bloggers on this site have 'hit the nail on the head' in terms of what and where our problems are, so why can't RM and his coaching staff?
One thing is for sure it's the height of foolishness to believe employing the same tactics and team set up will yield improved results.
Come on Roberto wake up and smell the coffee before the desperation associated with the downward spiral sucks us into a potential relegation issue.
And just a look at the table shows points wise we are nearer the bottom than the top!!

Fancy Smith

Ed025{Ed025's Note - im with you all the way fancy..good post mate..

21 Dec 2014 23:12:42
Cheers, I agree totally Ed033. Confidence is lacking severely in the squad and it needs to be sorted asap. Just two wins on the spin over the xmas period would help tremendously.




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